Dating in Taiwan

The White Guy / Taiwanese Girl thing seems to be a powerful myth for straight Western men here, and I’d like to point out some of the fictional elements of this myth.

Taiwanese girls love us! Could it be that we hang out in the places that also attract the minority of girls who want to date us? After all, very few of us Westerners can speak decent Chinese, or are able to do less ambiguous work than English teaching here, and most of us plan to leave within two years. We are on the periphery of this society, and our lack of assimilation forces us into the places that are set up for us. Although we talk about “getting into the culture”, I invariably encounter most foreigners in foreigner-friendly spots: Wellcome supermarkets, Grandma Nitti’s, Svenson’s… How many Taiwanese friends do you have that you didn’t meet through your job, or in one of these expat - orientated establishments?
Western guys trade stories of the “Psycho Xiao Jie” (who sends 500 text messages a day, and is also sleeping with two of your neighbours), but this kind of woman sounds quite different to the kinds of Taiwanese woman that I’ve met via teaching or through friends. The more typical Taiwanese woman seems to date a total of three men through her teens and twenties, and aims to get married before she’s thirty, so, for a woman like this, dating an English teacher will be a big mistake (he will soon leave Taiwan). There does seem to be a group of women who only want to date foreigners, but they seem a very small minority of the English speaking girls in Taiwan; a much larger number of women feel ambivalent about the idea. We foreigners underestimate our isolation – even in Taipei, I think most local people have no foreign friends, and are not looking for them (hence all the questions about whether you can use chopsticks).

You don’t need to do anything – these girls just come on to you! If anything is an abnormal Taiwanese trait, it must be to begin a conversation with a strange foreigner in order to have sex. If you accept that this is a culture where talking to strangers is often a stressful event, you are either describing a very unusual Taiwanese person, or you have been brainwashed by the myth. I know many single male Westerners here, and it’s clear that they aren’t being hunted down – they ponder the strangeness of this to me (“Maybe if I were taller…”). Perhaps instead, the standard Taiwanese view of us is more accurate: male foreigners who do well with girls spend lots of time on the prowl. I’ve watched friends go through the whole cycle of trying out Tealit, visiting bars, doing language exchanges - all the while sharing recommendations and tactics with each other… My other impression is that we foreigners have very little to do here in Taiwan, which creates this drinking, going to the gym and looking for girls culture. If you’re not learning Chinese, or have something creative to do with your time – what else can you do after work but go to bars?

The girls are beautiful! Well, I agree, but are we saying that particularly beautiful girls seek out foreigners? Is it possible that Taiwan, still rather patriarchal, puts huge pressure on women to look perfect, while men don’t have to do very much? A common sight, after all, is the “Tai-ke” couple: the slim girlfriend in heels and mini-skirt, the chubby boyfriend in a loose t-shirt and flip-flops. Is part of why women seem eager to date you not just because you’re a Westerner, but that social pressure makes it hard for women here to be single and content?
But, at this late stage, most foreign men have been swallowed whole by the myth, and so reality no longer matters. A bar with four “hot” Taiwanese girls and fifteen white guys crowded around them is still a great bar, even though at home, you’d move on immediately; a girl that back in London, you wouldn’t pay much attention to, now is incredibly interesting, because you’ve decided that all girls in Carniege’s must be beautiful and because you’re embarrassed that you haven’t had any luck in three weeks.

Taiwanese women are better than the feminists back home! Now you’re really smoking crack. Many of your instincts about right and wrong will routinely be flouted by your partner: if you would like to date someone who will be chatty and confident in house parties, for example, you may be disappointed. If you want, God forbid, someone who has vaguely similar ideas to yours about raising children, you may be disappointed. The Western men I’ve met here who are married to Taiwanese women rarely talk about how easy it is. Oh - perhaps she’s just joking about needing to get married, about looking after her parents and so on… I suspect she isn’t. And of course, realising all this, many Western men in Taiwan begin the new quest: for the Taiwanese girl who isn’t like other Taiwanese girls. Perhaps it’s impolite to point out that Taiwan is not the best place to look for such a person – could I instead suggest somewhere like San Francisco?

This article was previously printed in Taiwanease Magazine

Daniel

38 Responses to “Dating in Taiwan”

  1. Man, good points. Definitely stuff to think about.

  2. Amusing. Good stuff.

  3. Really a fine article that is fun to read!
    But I have to say that this myth is not all wrong. ;) In my case it actually kind of became reality. I am German and well, I have a Taiwanese gf. I met her at a club and she talked to me first. That was one of the first times I went out in Taipei. And yes, she is beautiful. :)

    We are together now for almost 2 years and going strong. :)

    Greetings from Gongguan, Sebastian

  4. All the ones I met here in the states have black gums and yellow teeth. I tell you what though…they are cute, but need a dentist intervention. To me, you need to live like a two hundred years with a penis that is good for at least 150 years to properly appreciate every piece of ass on planet Earth.

  5. I think some of what you say rings true but I think your throwing out some myths of your own. Like “the more typical taiwanese girl seems to date…” Where are you getting that from? Maybe it’s just the people you associate with? I’ve been here 2 years and i can honestly say I could probably get a different girl’s phone number every day, from girls that I see in public, who smile at me and occasionally say hello. I’m no casonova, but I’m not an idiot either. I know when a girl is intrested. Hell I’ve even had a girl on the MRT with her boyfriend sleeping on her shoulder, give me the eye. So I think your “Standard Taiwanese view of us (foreigners)…” is a little off. Infact it sounds like you read the lonely planet guide to culture for the opinion that girls talking to strangers is stressful. Of course, there are tons of girls here who could care less about me, when I flirt with them. The bottom line is; who cares? If guys and girls wanna hook up and have a little fun then hey, more power to them.

  6. AMEN! It took over a year for me to realize it, but everything you said is 120% on the mark…!

  7. I met my Taiwanese girlfriend in the states but the best way it so teach English in Taiwan because you will meet many more than in the states…better selection and better chance of hooking up. However a lot of the girls that want to study abroad are “different” in that they are interested in American culture. I’ve known Taiwanese girls that were stricktly looking for Asian men but the vast majority of Taiwanese girls studying in the U.S. have the fantasy of hoping to meet or date an American but many times are too shy. I walked up to my girlfriend and introduced myself in buchered Chinese (I only new a few words). Oh, forgot to mention that was 12 years ago. Been married for 10….and she is still hot! She soo crazy, make me luv her long time!!

  8. It’s nice to read something that is on the mark for a change. Having said that, the article still slips up by saying “Taiwanese girls are beautiful”. I’ve been residing in Taiwan for 7 years and could count the beautiful women I’ve seen in this country on 2 hands. Perhaps from a distance the women seem attractive, but get up close and personal and you encounter the bad skin, dragon’s breath, falsies, and drab attire syndrome.(Any fashion sense that these girls do display is borrowed from the Japanese.) In other words, any beauty that is witnessed here is purely cosmetic. True BEAUTY is something that originates from within and radiates outwards, enveloping the exterior with a glowing presence that is truly unique. Unfortunately, this kind of beauty is scarce in Taiwan, where a woman’s inner life finds its ultimate realisation in a superficial smile or artificial pose that she strikes at a trendy club like Carneigies on a Saturday night.

  9. Hi, I just started dating a Taiwanese-American girl. She became a citizen over the summer. I was wondering what are some of the do’s and don’ts of dating in Taiwan?

  10. very amusing post

  11. They are probably curious about Westerners like most Chinese and vice versa. Everyone likes a change from time to time especially when dating.

  12. Man, I have been studying chinese for four years, been to Taiwan three times, and I have never once seen a women come up to me. I’m very slender and athletic and I can hold a damn good chinese conversation. The truth is in his article. Taiwanese women only want western men if they think their lives in taiwan are not worth crap. The majority of the Taiwanese women you see in the bars and the Cougars in America. You don’t want these girls, they want you and your money and will break your heart, trust me! If you really are dead set on getting Taiwanese girl; learn chinese, learn the culture and don’t go to hot clubs. If you don’t do these things, the girls you meet will prolly give you a good STD or two.

  13. the guy who wrote this post is a mangina! he can have all the fat `beautiful` western hags. i`ll be out having fun with the sexy local chickies.

  14. This is by far the most popular post on this blog, and it’s been really interesting to watch the different responses mount up over time…

  15. very nice post here..i’ve bookmarked this blog for future reference..

    Hey i hope it’s not too late to wish you a Happy New Year

    Enjoy reading this blog … ;)

    thanks

  16. Wow Daniel, You’re word is truth! I’ve been in Taiwan for almost four years, and I’ll endorse your statement that the dating scene is absolutely terrible here. I’ve learned that Westerners here are merely a source of entertainment for the curious rich. So, the only girls here that would be seen talking to a foreigner have been rejected from society for reasons beyond a foreigners understanding. Thus, a white man who is open to dating in Taiwan is unwittingly making himself the play toy of some very self-centered, greedy and heart-breaking girls. They’re bony and flat-chested, and not so great looking, but they can grab your heart quite easily. They truly have skills on that, if they are motivated to apply them, that is. After learning this the hard way, I found a Filipino to marry. If anyone reading this is planning on coming to Taiwan to find a girlfriend, you should have a heart of stone and a lot of money. You’ll have better luck in the Ukraine or the Philippines to find a girl worth keeping.

  17. I just wrote a large paragraph about my ex Taiwanese wife. After I finished, I realized I was just venting my frustrations about her. So I killed it. Yes, she was everything you’d heard that Asian women are and can do to American men. She did it all and cheated on me on the way out. BUT I am now dating an amazing - truly ‘one-of-a-kind’ Taiwanese woman. She’s +10 years on me, but she looks incredible ~30s. She owns her own business. Treats me like I’m a god. And so, I treat her the same. Finally, a mutually beneficial relationship without the negative issues that follow so many couples. Just like U.S. (white) women…you have to find the right one that is compatible with you. Happy New Year!!!!!

  18. Happy new year to you too, Shidoshi.

  19. A well written article but a bit self lacerating and defeatist-which is of course the required, culturlaly mandated posture of the modern western male when talking about sex and ‘relationships’-Hillary Clinton would love you!; so I offer a thought on that -maybe with respect consider the possibility that your negativity becomes circular and stops you from actually meeting the right girls, thereby reinforcing the negativity etc etc; and secondly in my humble experience girls from the Asia Pacific region are infinitely preferable to western females- those of us who live in the ‘first world’ have to endure contact with some of the sourest, most cynical women on the entire planet!

  20. Hi Mark, I enjoyed reading your comment. My motivation for writing this article was to oppose what I perceived as a general myth about being a Western male in Taiwan - that dating here is paradise. The self-laceration was partly necessary because of the optimism of my fellow ex-pats.

    Were I to write a similar article about foreign men dating local women here in Syria, my current home, it would have a completely different angle, mainly because the prevailing myth is that Syrian women don’t want to date / mess around with foreign men. Investigation has suggested that this is only partially true.

    I would, however, feel more awkward writing that essay that the one I wrote about Taiwan, and so, perhaps that awkwardness shows the Hilary-esque nature of my views.

  21. Mark,
    If your theory is correct, then the negativity Dan may have had about “relationships” TOTALLY backfired for him…

  22. I lived in Taiwan for ten years and I think Daniel has made some valid points but is off the track slightly. Firstly, these myths originate from the fact that there is certainly a lot of beautiful girls in Taiwan. Walk down Zhongxiao E road any day of the week at any time - the density of hotties is higher than anywhere in the world. Wiggles is either a mad perfectionist, trying to have us on or is just sensory deprived. Admittedly dental issue are a problem with girls over about 30, but this is just as big a problem with lower socio-economic groups in the west too. The comment about skin is so wrong it makes me think that the only tw girls he must have been with had dermatitis or something. My ex-gf from years ago is 40+ and still has better skin than western girls I know 15 years younger than here. So, there are many beautiful girls, and though Daniel is right in saying they do not often approach you independently, and especially not in a romantic way, all the same they make it pretty clear that it is alright to approach them - as some commentators up there said, they even do this with boyfriend around. Now - truth be said - with the latest batch of young Luxy teeny boppers, foreigners are not nearly as interesting as rich cool guys with porsches but that’s prob the way it has always been in taiwan. Here the periphery aspect mentioned by Daniel comes in, mostly true with a certain type of tw girl, but even these girls are keen on having a fling with a foreign guy without bf knowing. Bf represents stability, keeping folks happy .. etc … but these girls are highly sexual creatures and they share the same sense of exoticism that we do, so it’s on if you have the right moves. And Chinese language helps with this but is prob not essential. But don’t forget, there are many girls who see the constrictions of life in a largely loveless marriage in front of them with the 1st son - living with his mother - and think a foreigner might be different. Often they find it is different. Daniel made a very good point - usually a 28 yr old tw woman can be expected to have had 2-3 bfs. This is true - possibly a harmless one in high school, then the main one, made in a ritualised motorscooter jouney to a park by matching pairs of university students, alotted randomly. They play some strange childish games where they run around in circles and then the couple often end up stuck with each other … this relationship usually lasts for 5-6 years. If they are even a little bit compatible they will get engaged. Even if they are not this idea will be a pressure on them, especially him. He will vent his frustration with affairs ( and so will she if chance arises with someone who doesn’t count ie waiguoren because she is worried guy she has affair with will put as much pressure on her as original boyfreind) … eventually they will break up - usually her who breaks it off. She is 25-28 by now and needs to find someone before magical age of 30. To a girl who has gone through this shit - foreigners seem attractive. So what I’m trying to say is that the girls are cute and it is not difficult to find one that suits you here. There are many types and most are amenable to the waiguoren. And here is the reason why I think the myth has arisen: even those who would never consider going with a foreign guy will often still take the time to listen to you. It’s considered polite I guess. I don’t think this happens in the west much nowadays (but I could be wrong. Over here in Aus now I let the women make th pick-up lines) As for Daniel’s last point - agreed. Tw girls may not express themselves in the same way, but they still get their way often. They can be very manipulative, strategic and cunning. And lovely. All at the same time. Note: I have not even thought it worthwhile to mention bar/foreigner hunters and gld diggers, who as Daniel mentioned are a minority, and usually in fact fall into another category I mentioned above but just go about it in a different way.

  23. Agreed, Agreed and maybe…

    It seemed to me that the Taiwanese (Especially the girls) really lay down the red carpet for Weiguoren. One thing that is important to mention, is that there was much more preferential treatment down south in Tainan and Kaohsiung than in Taipei. A few friends of mine told me that they felt like a rock star there. I agree.

    Personally, I found it extremely easy to meet girls in Taiwan. But much like any place in the world, you have to sift the trash from the treasures. If you want to sleep with the neighborhood nympho…by all means go ahead. Many girls had the impression that all white guys want one night stands, so that makes us like a motel, check in check out with no baggage. If you ask me, sounds like any college dorm across the western world.

    It is not certainly not difficult to meet a wife/mother quality girl to marry in Taiwan. The wild card comes with her parental acceptance, but times are changing especially in bigger cities. Many more families are agreeable to foreigners, that is if you are a caring, honest guy and not a bar-crawler. Oh yea, it helps if you can pay a monthly dowry as well! Rent a Bride!

    Some girls told me about frustration dealing with local customs/BF/family issues. In my case, I met more “psycho BFs” of the girls I knew, who would call or text them 30+ a day in order to “keep control”. On the BF side, they want to stay out of relationships for similar reasons. If a couple get serious and start having sex, that usually means that he is required to think about marriage long and hard. Which in turn means, bring the girl into the family, pay the parents of the bride a $30K or so dowry (buy them a car, down payment on a condo, or a good old fashioned Red Envelope) And get a secure office job. Which option would you choose… hm how about stay at moms house and play video games until your 30. Because that pretty much describes many of the Taiwanese guys I knew.

    All of that being said, I got struck with Asian fever, married a beautiful Taiwanese girl and just had gorgeous little baby. I agree with Mark, I prefer Asian girls over western ones. They are sweeter, Age better, loyal, treat you like a king and the cultural nuances always keep things interesting.

    One last thing. Just because you are treated like a king in Taiwan: Please maintain some class, show respect to the locals & treat the ladies well. It is too often not the case when young, drunk Weiguoren get starstruck.

  24. im about to fuck one of them bitches

  25. @ anon
    Your manliness just oozes forth through your tight, graphic prose.

  26. Very interesting and true posts. I’ve had 3 long-term relationships with Taiwan girls so far - one going as far as 7 years. Taiwan, like the average country, has girls who know how to attract westerners, but when things get serious, up close, or adventurous, you have to really think out of the box to make it worthwile - especially those who plan for a family… in fact in certain cases it may even be even more troublesome than most countries… but all in all, it’s not that bad. The biggest help though, is experience. Once you’ve been here for 17 years or so, you begin to find out what it’s all about: relationship limits for playing, itellectual open-minded non-culture effected minds for marriage, communication from their prospective is ONLY possible solution for any type of communication… because it’s all about trickery… or for my parents in her mind… seldom do you randomly run accros a effortless success with girls in Taiwan regardless your goal.

  27. I just wanted to dispel another myth that I noticed in this discussion. Asian women are just like western women. Culturally, there are some differences, but they are very much the same. It comes down to preference. Men who like submissive women will seek them out. Similarly, men who want strong women will seek them out. Therefore, the men who desire Asian women will believe that Asian women are better.

    Dating an Asian or Taiwanese girl is no different than dating any other girl. Culturally, there are differences, but that comes with any relationship. So, for you men who think that these girls are easier to pickup, then put yourself in the girl’s shoe. Do you think she is picking you up because she thinks you are easy to pickup? That could be what is happening. These girls might have “western” fever or something of the sort. Just like western men having “yellow” or “jungle” fever. The whole aspect of the exotic is something we all entertain. It is part of our life. We think about it, try it and sometimes we stay with it. I could almost call it a fetish.

    I wish I could look at this from a white male point of view, but I look at it from just a male point of view. I have dated my share of Taiwanese girls, in addition to the German, French, Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese, Chinese, American, Indian and Mexican. What can I say, I move around from country to country a lot. Regardless of the location, the difficulty is the culture. There will be the tough ones and the easy ones. It all takes work.

    As for Dan’s comments about the girls, it is pretty much on the money. Personally, I think the ratio of hot girls to not hot girls in Taiwan is about the same as anywhere else in the world. I think it comes down to the perspective of the viewer. I have seen and met so many white men who think they have the hottest Asian girlfriend that I think white men cannot tell the difference between pretty and ugly Asian women. I almost think that the “yellow” fever blinds them. I can say likewise for the Asian guy with the western girl because some of those girls are just plain Janes. To be honest, we are not always good with recognizing beauty when the race is not that of our own.

  28. These are great comments and opinions. I am 33 and playing baseball down here in the Taiwan league. It is always interesting to here the different perspectives of people from all over the world. What ever happened to chemistry and girl likes guy and guy likes girl. If you are attracted to someone nothing will stop you.

  29. Have been dating a Taiwanese woman for nearly 2 years. Iv never been to her hometown ‘Teipei’ but will be going soon and cant wait! I dunno about all the negativcity surrounding Taiwanese peeps but all I kno is my g/f is the weirdest most intriguing and funnist person iv met. And one shout out for her….TAIWAN DOES NOT BELONG TO CHINA!!!! (Sorry about the politics!) lol

  30. is this a good thing

    i been talking to a girl from Tiawan for 39 weeks
    I’m planning to viset her at end of year i think she the one
    is there any way i can get her to live in Austraila?

    help plz

  31. Jono, dude, give more details…

  32. While Taiwanese women are not as staid as Koreans, they are certainly more reserved than Filipinas or Koreans.

    I’ve been here a while and have given up dating the Taiwanese. I find that because I don’t demand that Taiwanese women do everything the western way (I’m not even asking them for sex), they then expect me to do everything the Taiwanese way. I’m looking for a middle ground on mutual cultural respect and not finding any.

  33. Hi, Daniel,

    Really enjoyed reading your article about Taiwanese. Quite amusing, and comments as well. Compared with HK, Singapore and many other places in Asia, Taiwan itself doesnt seem to be attractive to westerners, male or female. (It has taken my husband months to get a proper job in IT in Taiwan and there are still no fruitful results yet, unfortunately.) Of course, you can take political factors into account; but hey, that seems to be too serious, tho it does matter (i really hope the new president would take us into another defferent level as he claims.)

    I grow up, study (English dept) and work in Taipei for almost the past 30 years; as far as I am concerned, many, if not most, white men in Taiwan are really horny, esp those in the pubs, bars, clubs, English-teaching classes. That’s a tragedy. I hope you dont mind my saying so. But, no one to be blamed really cos it really takes two to tango - who says those girls in the pubs are serious enough).

    If you really want to find a girl with ‘middle ground on mutual cultural respect’, according to my experience, there are many, especially these days. Friends of mine are married to Canadian, English, French and American. When you are horny, you have no way to hide it and you will soon be recognised and contempted I would say. I supposed this also kinda explains why hot and greedy girls easily make white guys heartbroken if he is also looking for such girls.

    PS.
    Some guy above suggested Zhongxiao E. Road to look for hotties, me and my husband say Zhongshan N. Road!! YOU WILL REGRET IF YOU DONT GO THERE to look for real hotties. Be warned: make yourself a bit posh, not all casual guys can appeal to beautiful girls!

    Really looking forward to your writing published(? I hope so and I would be the first one to grab one, or at least one of the firsts)!

  34. Thanks Betty.

  35. chatted with a Taiwanese chick online for a few years. Went there to meet her, WOW, she was hot.

    Then she came to london.
    She has her hooks in me, and the M word has been mentioned.

    She is serious and me too.
    We are both over 35 know what we want and mature.

    So different folks different strokes

  36. ….Well the blog was certainly a good read, inspiring both frequent smiles and equally frequent frowns. As a guy who spends quite some time in TW, and will eventually live there with my TW gf, I can’t help but feel the way we are generally received or treated, be it superficial or genuine, is a credit to TW and its people, male and female.( and I have been duped in business here too, but I won’t tar them all with the same brush) Sure I have encountered the occasional western asshole mistreating his TW gf, and, on one occasion, personally intercepted and dealt with an abusive English male exhibiting appalling behavior in a bar with his TW gf. In 25 years of travel (I am a “non American”) I can only recall ever having received equally great service, social reception and hospitality, when I was in country USA. To the credit of TW, and I don’t care if it’s real or not, they have respect. I know many will disagree, but hey, get over it, take a look around, in any culture there is bitching and backstabbing. If being called a big nose or any other equally mild generalization make you uncomfortable, go home to your mother and get your laundry done. TW girls are sophisticated and complex. They’re a hell of a lot of fun and I wouldn’t trade my gf for the world. I reject the claim subservience being their appeal to foreigners. If any guy can keep his relationship alive with a girl from any culture, it’s more likely down to his ability to keep her happy, and not be an asshole. Some of the things I do and really enjoy, like cooking, hold appeal and intrigue to TW people. A slob is a slob in any language. I’ve heard a number of TW girls complain about they way TW guys treat them. Perhaps this is one reason being foreign initially attracts them to meet guys like us? Who really knows?
    PS re: anon post, “Dui ni ge da tou!” your comment was rather amusing …..

  37. Agreed with the above two posters.

    Oh and lol at the all comments about “girls back home.”. I’m curious to know how many of you actually know how to deal with women in general and didn’t just come here to get girls because its “easier”.

  38. Why struggle with a language and culture problem in taiwan, when you can living in Singapore… get a few dates from myspace, and be nailing some asisn chick (probably not as hot as a taiwanese, but ok) in less than 3 weeks.

    Good luck getting out the relationship though.. in 1.5 years, Ive gotten 2 serious relationships, the girls just didnt want to let me go and tried to destroy me when I dumped them… being stuck with them for long (around 7 months each) really limited my ability to play. But the time is was single between relationships was around 2 weeks (which shows how east it is to hook up again)

    Anybody a bit firmer and playboyish could do way better than me and nail even hotter girls… I settled for average chicks cause i knew i could get them… just wish i didnt get stuck with them for so long….when i try to dump them they make it sound like im the worst person on earth… so i stayed with them out of guilt until i just coulndt take it.

    For easy lays - SIngapore!… why stuggle in taiwan ??? U dont even need to learn chinese cause these chicks will be correcting your own english!

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